Dialogue Matters
Chris Drukker: A Sincere Handshake
Photography by Rita Selby
A graphic designer/photographer/ illustrator/retoucher of close to 3,000 jazz projects with a vast and varied catalog of experience with artists such as Chick Corea, Wynton Marsalis, Houston Person, Eric Alexander, Hank Mobley, Louis Armstrong, Dave Stryker, Oliver Lake, Herb Alpert, Jim Snidero, Thelonious Monk, Luciana Sousa, Randy Weston, Fred Hersch, and many more artists including the interviewer of this article, Rita Selby. Chris in this casual and quiet setting at the Montclair Public library in Upper Montclair, New Jersey on a clear, crisp autumn afternoon, talks about breaking down barriers, staying present and breaking through fear.
We’re being spontaneous—which Chris loves—starting with the following words: who, what, where, when, why and how. We complete them as the spirit moves, in the true spirit of improvisation.
WHO has inspired you most to take the artistic journey you are on?
CD: There are way too many people to acknowledge, for many reasons. Just randomly – I would say first, Miles Davis because he has an incredible intuitive spirit. He’s spontaneous, he’s analytical, he is logistically expressive with his own and others creativity, and he influences others to achieve something purposeful. He’s great at pacing tempos and moods. He’ll work through other people to get the desired result.
Let’s take saxophonist Wayne Shorter, the composer in Miles’ quintet of the time (1964 to 1970). Wayne was very mechanical minded; Miles was the intuitive catalyst to bring a creative spirit out of people and simultaneously lead at the same time [which is] an extremely challenging skill to balance, to be collaborative and [ensure] not to impose your will too strongly. In that way, Miles is very inspiring.
Next person I would say was a mentor of mine (in my corporate career) who guided me to reinvent my understanding and approach of graphic design (in my late 30’s) to be more logical in solving challenging visual communication problems and esthetics, how to make sense of a line and how it was constructed. Preparation, adaptability and conceptualization – hard disciplines to master for an artist, to arrive at effectively and convincingly. Pete Turner was an initial influence on my working style in photography – his use of bold colors and simplicity. I loved that he took everyday objects and made something new of them. I love simplicity. There are many other people too who have had a huge impact on my creative style – I’d be here all afternoon, but those are couple people off the top of my head.
WHAT matters to you – in this world, in your art. Unless they’re the same thing.
CD: I’m going to bring up the word Integrity – one’s purpose in life. The people that surround you are just as important. They help you navigate through diffcult stages of your life, they inspire you, just like one’s work. People give us ideas. People make us think differently. They flesh out things in our lives. When you have a good friend you have a chance to bump things off them when uncertainty strikes – “am I doing this right”? To keep things fresh, keep up with ideas and techniques, things are changing so rapidly. It’s hard to keep up with these times. Current events and the arts, all these things are intertwined. Some folks think technology is a be-all, end all. It’s not. It’s only a tool to be used when needed. It is also easy to get caught up in the past. In the process it is a challenge to reinvent oneself, to move forward, trying to get to the root of something, not being too restrictive, or by follow fads or empty attention-seeking trends.
The older one gets, the more you try to really get to the root of an idea. Bill Murray said something about getting older. (He said) “I really wanna be in the moment, to really be there all the time, to be present”. It’s so easy to get distracted that you really want to be present all the time. It’s hard when you’re [working] 8-12 hours straight, it’s hard to be on your game all the time. Longevity, it’s hard to be constantly focused… this is probably what Bill Murray was saying… that you want to really be present as much as you can in the moment. The creative process can be incredible – ‘The Agony and the Ecstasy’ (referencing the Irving Stone 1961 novel on Michelangelo). There is a wonderful presence in the engagement of artistic creativity, and it’s a very nuanced thing. It’s something that if you’re too conscious of it while you’re in the process, it seems to disappear. It’s like a self-hypnotizing practice. The analogy might be: picturing oneself on a tightrope, you are trying to get across from Point A to point B safely, but the moment you realize you are on a tight rope… you fall; so, If you’re too conscious of the technical matters, you lose your balance, you lose the emotional character of which you are trying to achieve. The supreme challenge is to balance those things evenly and constantly all the time… while also being open to new ideas.
All artistic expression is… is problem-solving. Little micro-adjustments here and there. Collectively or individually. You have to interpret the idea or concept carefully and correctly. Trying to get closer to that nirvana in both - myself, and my work - so that I can get the best results possible. Conversely, when people sometimes micromanage you, you can’t think, it can be very restrictive at times, to work freely in the creative process. Sometimes I think that usually on a graphic design project the judgmental and planning process should be done in the front end of a project, not during the act [of ] creating accidents – [they] are some of the best outcomes of a project. Being open to see these opportunities. If I plan something too much it never comes out right. It looks contrived and doesn’t have that fluidity that I’m looking for, the beauty, the aesthetic, the meaning of an idea. When the objective of a project starts to become a true reality, then it seems to talk to me, and then idea(s) of direction starts to come together more organically.
The creative process can take on other pathways too, for instance, an example might be when, I was photographing at Trumpets [legendary jazz club in Montclair, NJ]. I was photographing Dave Stryker’s group performance. Every time I looked in the viewfinder, I couldn’t shoot. Everything I was seeing was trite, boring, it seemed like I had shot that image million times before. At that moment I convinced myself that, this is not working! that I was on the wrong track of trying to capture the energy of his performance. The problem was me – I learned a valuable lesson that evening. I need to be present. If I’m too focused on the problem, I’m not going to get anywhere I thought. So, I took a breath, and knew what had to be done – stop, wait, be patient, pay attention to what is happening in front of you, and be open and alert to the moment in front of me. Being a photographer one must try to be spontaneous to many of the fleeting moments at hand. It’s sort of like a game of tennis. The energy comes to you very quickly, one has to be as alert and responsive to these fleeting moments as possible. It’s physically demanding, too. One has to be a constant body of motion moving all the time, being ready for the next moment. It takes only one-200th of a second to get [a great shot]. With design you have more time to arrange ideas and directions, akin to being a music composer, say like – Gil Evans or Gary McFarland...you have time to work out ideas… in photography you have much less time to react, than in graphic design…in some sense they are contrary disciplines of actions or skills.
What an artist is trying to achieve, is through color, harmony, balance, positive-negative space, all those requirements are also needed for any artists (musician or visual artist)…visual arts and music are identical. I’m kind of like a transistor taking the musical information and putting it into another medium [visual]. Through how much one applies contrast, weight, balance, space, color, patterns etc. All those things. That’s the beauty and challenge of it.
You mentioned arrangers…
CD: Oliver Nelson, Gary McFarland, Quincy Jones, Lalo Schifrin, Claus Ogermann, Michael Leonhart, each have their own musical signature. All these arrangers have inspired me to understand graphic design better. It’s just something you take from another medium, and process through another medium – as mentioned, it is the transferral of the aural to visual world.
That’s what sets your work apart. Your design is a visual of the music.
CD: I hope so… Is it not true, all creative people are trying to be authentic too? Probably this is where one’s style evolves from?… Miles Davis remarked once by saying “Good music is like a sincere handshake.” That’s how I look at the world in general. If a person is NOT being true to their values to be part of something that they’re not comfortable or familiar with (to just fit in socially), it hurts them and their values…I learned in grade school, to try to uphold one’s principles, but you have to believe in yourself, and sometimes being stubborn about what you believe in, even when the people around you don’t appreciate or understand these values. But it is equally important to be open to other ideas and values as well – flexibility without compromise – but you have to be comfortable in your own skin first. The more you know your limitations, the more you can excel as a person and not be bound by these liabilities… perhaps even exploit those traits?
Miles knew he wasn’t the best trumpeter in the world but he knew how to effectively use his limitations to achieve highly creative outcomes… to be a catalyst to those around him, through rhythm and space (among other things).
“Good music is like a sincere handshake” — Miles Davis
Related but unrelated, Another favorite quote I always love, speaking of lifestyle, drummer, Art Blakey once stated: “If you take care of jazz, it’ll take care of you.” I believe this to be true, of any creative artists, sculptors, authors, actors, screenwriters, poets, fine artists, etc.
Album Cover Art by Chris Drukker:
Album Artwork & Design by Chris Drukker
I believe that. If you take care of your career path, it will reward you, if you trust it. Life is always throwing challenges at us all the time, embracing this fact, is a difficult choice and very challenging practice… if the road (of life) is always straight, it would be boring, and we seem to learn our most impactful lessons through adversity if we allow it. That’s the hardest thing to apply and understand, to learn from adversity and capitalize on it.
It’s your frame of mind, isn’t it? I go back to what I said during the Dave Stryker performance. I got in the way of myself. I had the misguided notion, that I was unable to shoot an meaningful image at the time, when I could not see anything the the viewfinder of the camera, so I had to stop shooting, reflect, and then refocus my attention to what was happening in front of me at the time…it takes patience and control.
“If you take care of jazz, it’ll take care of you.”
— Art Blakey
Adversity brings great insight in ourselves, if we can first comprehend it and allow it to teach us: losing a loved one, or your house, or job. Changes your perspective. That underscores that everything is temporary. Even our existence. I want to construct things that are hopefully meaningful to those I work with, and the audience they serve. In other words, be an effective communicator for the audience and the artists, to humbly and gratefully serve.
The final objective of any project is trying to achieve great work. The results might just be passable in the final analysis by my standards, but if you set your sights for something unattainable such as (great work), it allows you to keep that pressure on yourself to do things that are beyond your capabilities; God willing, trying to keep things on a high level all the time. I don’t know a better way to put that. I think we’re all trying to maintain a high level of work — telling an interesting story…No?
That’s what art is to me. It’s storytelling and it’s emotion. I think those ingredients are what most people connect with from both an audience and artist perspective. I don’t care what the medium is…Sculpture, drama, music, dance. I think attempting to tell a compelling and emotional story that’s connected with an idea, is how one expresses emotion? Again, the same laws applies in music as it does with visual art.
It’s a trust thing. You’ve got this instrument [camera] and this is an awesome responsibility, they’re self-conscious and you want to get that human flame inside them, let them get relaxed and be themselves. I know when I’m on the right path while shooting, a common response is usually path, the subject might say, “but I didn’t do anything”! (Posing).. each person has his or her body language that a photographer has to pay very close attentions to. Not only physical traits, but facial expressions as well. A seasoned photographer has to get the subject comfortable enough to allow that subject to reveal those wonderful traits that each individual inherently possesses. Most commonly, strict posing directives do not achieve these natural results, they must be drawn out of the subject in front of the lens, through many social techniques that a photographer sincerely might employ through their arsenal, these techniques should relax a subject into revealing that person’s true character… In on other words, you have earn their trust and be very adept at reading people.
You have to slipstream to get the interesting parts of their personality, their life force. Everyone has something to say, there’s always a story there, the job of a photographers is to bring this out of a subject. As humans we can relate to many archetypes… a bully, someone we love, somebody that is a relative, any number of things that we see in our world good or bad or indifferent. There’s the word (integrity) which (pops up again). You wanna be an honest purveyor of what that is inside. I don’t wanna see myself on them, and the more I push myself on them the more it looks like I tried to push the subject into something that is NOT them. I have to back off and let them be themselves. It often challenges you to think out of your comfort zone.
The other aspect is the physical endurance a photographer must possess. You have to be with them at all times. As soon as you relax a little bit and you’re not paying attention, the good shot passes you by. Like a full game of tennis. You only have a second to capture that moment. If practice this art long enough and better anticipate a moment long enough, the likelihood of successfully capturing a moment increases. To put a finer point on this, I’d would say out of a 1000 images shot, only 20% are passible. 1% might have that “it” factor… on a really productive day it might increase to 30% of passable images I think music to me is the closest thing to humanity. Improvised music. It’s just a vivid reflection of our lives. For instance we might make plans for a given day that might inevitably change during that day. Like, say, missing a train, you have to make an adjustment to get to your destination through alternate means. Improvised music is trying to capture a moment with everyone else along for the ride… again, being present in the moment!
One time seeing Betty Carter in Newark, NJ in May of 1995 she was able to captivate the WHOLE audience at the concert. It felt as if the whole room revolved around her!. A room that had a ‘show me what you got’ mentality, and the whole room was fixated on this magnificent powerful, short being. ...Boom! all this energy came out of her, she took complete control of a room of a about 500 people. That’s amazing. As an artist, that’s what you are trying to achieve: get past all barriers and try and touch – human expression. The meaning of life… one has to ask themselves, god, how do they do this?
Maybe that’s it. Get to the next step and move on. Hopefully we gain something out of this experience as humans, that we don’t just sit on the sidelines and say "life sucks." We sometimes need the moments of self reflection, and when we’re at our best, we might transcend the adversity of this existence. We may find our true selves. That’s being open to opportunity, instead of letting life get us down. The more we overthink a problem sometimes, the more trouble we get into.
Why did the room revolve around Betty Carter? And why does it still move you?
CD: Betty understood everything I just talked about. She did an album called “The Audience” in 1979. She was a very assertive, strong and confident individual… who knew how to communicate a vivid and relatable statement though her magnificent work… as for me? What is there not to appreciate in a spirit such as a Betty Carter!… personal preferences aside.
Reflecting this point further, Betty had to fight [in the music business] being a woman and a person of color. Those things I didn’t have a chance to talk with her about, but you can hear that in her work. She had a great sense of pride in herself and she demanded those same qualities in others, too… All those principles went to the audience. The audience knows when they hear something honest. (Forget subjective taste) I don’t care for those kinds of opinions. In Betty’s case, she typified how that transistor should be, that vessel of a person as a prism letting all the colors shoot out in all directions. Regardless of creative style (true) people love honesty. I try to be as honest as I can about things in my life and work. That’s tough to live by, tough to express in some cases. But you have to be honest. And it’s not a subjective thing. Everybody knows when people are insincere… and that’s a drag for everyone… including those who are insincere, too. Somehow, children can pick up insincerity in adults, they can pick it up fast. We grow up and can lose that sensitivity, we’re supposed conform in an over structured manner, hiding honesty in the process. I think this world would be a lot better if people can get past their ego. But here, too, it’s a delicate balance of life: ego gives confidence, and can also be a hindrance by overconfidence at the same time. The more one psychoanalyzes something, they might miss the bigger picture. When you’re feeling an aura around people, you can feel threat or welcome.
WHERE [did you develop the concepts you use today]?
CD: I learned a lot about human cliques [while attending middle school]. [Points to window across the room from which the Montclair Middle School can be seen clearly, across the street. Chris attended this middle school, 1973-1977]. I was an introvert. However, luckily I had close friends outside of school that I could feel comfortable socializing with, but I could not relate to the conventional social norms of the general population in grade school. I learned in grammar school that people want to be part of a group that all agree on one thing, even when they did not believe in that one thing. I went to Bradford School in Upper Montclair, NJ in 1968 – most of the general students population (20 to a class), were white Anglo-Saxon, blue eyes, blonde hair, during the height of the civil rights era. As I progressed through the school system I witnessed a lot of racial indifference this indifference greatly troubled me. I don’t look at race or gender or any other differences in people, I just look for that aura in one’s character. At that time in grade school, I felt like an outsider. This experience was both a blessing and curse rolled into one; this allowed me to clearly see the world as it was (and is), and cope with many personality types that I felt were cruel, without trying to seek their approval—by staying true to my own terms. Generally, I did this through the means of silence and observation. We all have to deal with people who are not like us, offensive as some might be. Knowing how to navigate these kinds of people is a supreme challenge while maintain your core values; these very same values are also necessary in one's work, too. The people you interact with have a great influence on our personality, too. I cannot begin to tell you how important sincere friends are. They provide opportunities, guidance, support. Without those important connection, one can slowly loose one's resilience, confidence and self reliance. Human beings are going to fear what they don’t know. You don’t know when your time is up, when the proverbial maid service knocks on the door and says ‘time to go’. When you’re in your 20s you think you’re going to live forever, but you try to do things that have a deep purpose, while making [connections with] people you enjoy. Connections that are, again, meaningful and essential to our journey, and hopefully we in return are beneficial to others lives too… What does all this have to do with concepts?…Everything! It all comes out of our creative expression as humans.
WHEN do you feel the most satisfaction in your work?
CD: I’m really never completely satisfied with the work (nor should I). But if I were, I think, when I achieve that goal that I set for myself, when I hit my objective. [It boils down to] being true to yourself. I’m trying to get to that place … how do you put it in words?… I just want to make something beautiful.
More than beauty, I’m trying to capture the essence of something which takes a lot of concentration and commitment, at times as a photographer it sometimes can be very physically demanding, it takes a lot out of you to effectively achieve this goal, but well worth the sacrifice of energy and time.
HOW do you know you’ve captured the essence?
CD: Essence? That’s a tricky one to describe… Each person I collaborate with has their own concept of what we think will work on a project. When hopefully all those collective efforts line up correctly, the results hopefully would be received in a positive manner by all parties, the contractor, audience and myself. If not better luck next time, and move on. Miles Davis keenly observed once, when painting his pictures, he noticed that, if he came back to his painting the next day, he knew instantly that he had what he wanted to communicate or not…sometimes we need to walk away from our work to see, or hear it more clearly and objectively.
It’s a mystifying thing the artistic creative process. As mentioned earlier, I’m trying to stay out of the way myself all the time, trying to hopefully ask the right questions when I’m working on any given project, being open to what’s happening in the moment. When I’m working as a graphic designer, it takes vast amount of time to construct something. When the role as a photographer is needed on a project, it only takes a second to make an image, working as a photographer it also takes me out of that safe space, it is a more social exercise than graphic design, because of the immediate interaction needed to work with people at the moment of creation. On the other hand, I also don’t mind the company of myself, too. That is benefit of what these two trades offer—both of these skills bring out the both qualities in myself…being the introvert and extrovert.
Remembering when I was that child across the street, (Mt. Hebron Public School aforementioned) in my formative years, I basically never socialize with many other fellow students at the time. [However] I did had a few close friends outside of school that I could feel comfortable expressing myself more freely in their company, also having the great benefit of solid guidance from my parents helped too, who were very supportive of [my art]. They knew I was on a mission. And my mother was always there pushing for me. She would move mountains for me, more than my two older brothers. I was very close to both my parents, particularly my mother. I could talk to her about anything. And she would guide me through my fears and anxieties. I had a fear of most everything. The greatest gift she ever gave me, was when I was 8 years old, where I was having great difficulty of convincing myself to jump in 3 feet of water in a pool. My mother was there trying to convince me for a full 45 minutes, coaxing me gently and patiently. “You can do this!” And when I finally had the courage to jump in the water she gently stated, “You see, it wasn’t that bad!” I nearly broke into tears from joy when she said this. I always think about that moment, when I’m dealing with fear or uncertainty. After that it changed my life monumentally. It broke down a lot of barriers in me, and believe me, I had many of them as a child.
Another milestone came in my senior year when a fellow student threw a nickel at me striking my forehead in the high school cafeteria, Ouch that hurt!.. I boldly threw it back at the offender. Where he in return came over to me and gave me a violent shove… I firmly stood my ground verbally. I felt at the time, that it would not have been a wise decision to further escalate this act of provocation or intimidation by throwing a punch … but I clearly got the point across, without sacrificing my integrity… all these are survival skills…. I think these related or unrelated experiences help one navigate or guide one to see the essence in their work and their social contributions more clearly.
When creating I think you’re in a euphoric state. You have an impression of floating, you just feel more like you’re in the air. You feel weightless, in that moment, time stops, you know? that common cliche one always hears. You just feel like wow!, it’s akin to going down one of childhood slide, that feeling you get in your stomach, woosh! – the greatest feeling in the world. You’re in that zone. In the developmental process of graphic design or illustration, a lot of it, again, making incremental decisions, a bit at a time, but sometimes when it’s really happening you’re not in your body. There’s are no words for it… It's just an incredible feeling!
When I’m finished with a project. I walk away, looking forwards to the next experience. For the most part, I really don’t like looking back at past accomplishments. I don’t even feel like doing my old stuff over again. The old projects captured who I was at that moment and time, it can’t be duplicated again; it’s just the beauty of creating something. As if one where a carpenter, feeling your hands on the wood, giving a project bone and life, substance.
Gallery of Album Artwork & Portrait Photography by Chris Drukker:
Bottom row (L-R): Dayna Stephens, Vanessa Rubin, Michael Wolff, Regina Carter, Chris Beck, Gary Versace